Vince Vitale [00:00:42] Hi everyone, welcome to Ask Away. I'm Vince Vitale, and I am here with my wonderful wife, Dr. Jo Vitale. 

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Jo Vitale [00:00:49] Dr. Jo? 

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Vince Vitale [00:00:49] Yeah. Dr. Jo tonight. I'm very thankful for you tonight. We're coming to you at the end of a long day. Raphael and JJ are sleeping in the other room, so there's a possible chance that you'll have an intermission in the middle of the recording here, but we'll make it sound seamless by the time it gets to you. And yeah, the end a long because the day began this morning with me getting a call from one of Jo's friends who she works out with, telling me that Jo had ran into a moving car during one of her workouts, which we are very, very thankful that Jo is here recording with us tonight. Yeah, just makes you realize not to take anything for granted. So even though it's been a long day, we're feeling the privilege of being able to talk to all of you about meaningful things. Just the privilege of being able to get to do this. And we're very thankful that Jo does not seem like she needs to go to the emergency room. She's a bit battered and bruised, but [inaudible] Jo. 

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Jo Vitale [00:01:46] Yeah, I'm feeling surprisingly great for someone who managed to run into a car this morning. 

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Vince Vitale [00:01:51] Yes, everyone is now sort of trying to conceive of how that was possible. 

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Jo Vitale [00:01:55] How did I manage to do that? 

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Vince Vitale [00:01:57] I think it may have in part been that she was thinking about the content for the podcast. 

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Jo Vitale [00:02:00] I actually was. You know what, right as I hit the car, the thought in my head was, "Isn't it amazing that Jesus meets us in our brokenness?" Bam! So that literally was where my head was, but Vince couldn't quite believe how English I was about the whole thing because, of course, the poor lady she was so traumatized, the woman who I ran into, as you would be, but she was like, "Oh, are you okay?" And I just said, "Are you, okay?" We were both just checking on each other, but yeah, I'm very grateful to be here tonight. 

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Vince Vitale [00:02:33] Amazing, but thank you lord for that not being a split second earlier. Could have been a very different day, so we are we are grateful to be here with all of you and thank you for listening and thank you for sending in your questions and your encouragements that you send in by email. I'll tell you each week the encouragements we receive from listeners, they inspire us more than anything So, thank you all. We are going to be talking today about Holy Communion, or the Lord's Supper, or The Eucharist, depending on your tradition. Since the very beginning of the church, a centerpiece of Christian worship; to gather together and eat bread and drink wine or juice in memory of Jesus and treating this as Jesus's body and blood. Let's be frank. That's weird, in case you weren't sure. And the early Christians were made fun of for this. And yet, pretty much every Christian church, 2,000 years later, continues the practice. That's pretty remarkable. Jesus instituted this practice during the Last Supper, the night before he died. But he also spoke about it at length in the Gospel of John, chapter 6. 

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[00:03:46] Let me just read a portion of his words as we get started here. This is starting in verse 51. "Jesus said, 'I am the living bread that came down out of heaven. If anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever. And the bread which I give for the life of the world also is my flesh.' Then the Jews began to argue with one another saying, 'How can this man give us his flesh to eat?' So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly (he doubles down) I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. The one that eats my flesh and drinks my blood (it's like he can't say it enough) remains in me and I in him. Just as the living father sent me and I live because of the father, the one who eats me, he also will live because of me.'" So just imagine standing there hearing these words, what would you have been thinking? What would you have been thinking, Jo? 

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Jo Vitale [00:04:55] It's got to have been a wild moment, right? Everyone's following him because he's just done this huge miracle. They're thinking, this is our guy. This is our king. And suddenly it pivots, like he just completely flips the script. And people must've just thought what on earth is he talking about? Because the language is so graphic. Like he doesn't pull back here. It's not like some cute little metaphoric picture that he's using. He keeps repeating himself, talking about 'eats my flesh, drinks my blood' and he's just like hammering it home. It's almost like he, and I think he is, intentionally not holding back. You used the word doubles down. He absolutely doubles down. It's this very long speech that he gives in the gospel of John here and he just wants them to get something. And He's absolutely determined that He's not going to be king on their terms and that if they're going to come to Him, they're coming to Him on His terms, not just on what they want to make of Him. And yeah, so it's this kind of fascinating moment. But what really stands out to me about it is that Jesus knew. It's not like Jesus can't read the room. 

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[00:06:09] Jesus knew that He was being really weird, really provocative here. He knew that he was talking in a way that was going to really hard for people to come to terms with. And that's what happens, right? They start arguing. They say, who can accept a teaching like this? We're told that some of them walk away and then we told that as a result, many of his disciples left from that day. This was this big turning point in his ministry when he goes from having this big crowd following him to this much smaller group. This was a really pivotable moment for Jesus. It didn't have to be that way, but He's the one who forced it. And the fact He doesn't pull back from that language, I mean, that reputation carries on right into the early church where you see people fairly frequently, I think, misunderstanding communion and Christian practices and accusing Christians of being cannibals. I think it's Tertullian and some other church fathers who we see having to respond to these arguments being made against Christians that they're cannibals because of their practices around communion. And so, yeah, this is a really hard teaching of Jesus. It's not one where he's softening it to win people over or trying to make it accessible or easily grasped or palatable. He's making it unpleasant on purpose. So I think that kind of begs the question, like, why? Why is he going out of his way? Almost to lean into the weirdness here. 

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Vince Vitale [00:07:28] Yeah, like how one translation puts it. This is a very unpleasant teaching is one of the translations. And then Jesus even turns to the apostles after many disciples have walked away, he turns to the Apostles and say, "Do you want to leave, too?" It's really so strong. But the weirdness is important here because it gives his disciples an opportunity to respond with the faith that says, if you say it, we do it. No matter how weird. No matter how much I don't get it, I actually trust you more than I trust myself. No matter how I'm going to get made fun of for it or dismissed by others as crazy, your word is good enough for me. That's the opportunity that Jesus is giving here to his disciples. So it's one sense for communion to truly be the sign of following Christ that it is, it actually has to be weird. We have to, at least in some sense, not get it and still be willing to trust Jesus at his word. Because too often we just pass off what we would normally do like what we would do anyway as obedience. We do what we wouldn't have done anyway and then we thank God for his gracious leading. We have to be careful like that converge on taking the lord's name in vain but real obedience-- we know this with our kids. Real obedience is when you actually do the things which are not what you are just happy enough to do regardless. 

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Jo Vitale [00:08:55] Yeah, that's a big one. Like the times we use God's name to justify the decision we wanted to make anyway. And the hurt that can actually sometimes cause people as well. So, yeah, it's a big deal. It's interesting that it's both a weird sign that it leaves people with questions about cannibalism and what is he talking about and what is the graphic imagery about. But it's also a surprising image and weird in another way. And because people don't usually lean this way when you're thinking about the symbol that you want to be remembered by, when Jesus says, "Do this in remembrance of me." Do this as often as you drink it in remembrance of me. He's really hammering home this is the way I want to. But then why this image in particular? Because most people lean the opposite way. They lean into a symbol of strength, not one of such profound weakness. 

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Vince Vitale [00:09:46] And this is a little tongue in cheek, but this must be the most surprising ad campaign or marketing strategy of all time. First, because it's not trying to get us to buy anything, instead actually telling us that everything we need has already been paid for. So that's sort of the beauty of what Jesus is asking us to remember. But also because it is just so simple and humble. If you were Almighty God and you were choosing one way for people to remember you, down through the ages, what would you choose? I would choose the most impressive and awe-inspiring of my achievements. 

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Jo Vitale [00:10:25] Would that be marrying me? 

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Vince Vitale [00:10:27] Marrying Jo, fireworks, flags, British and American, big, bold colors, red, white, and blue. Tink about July 4th-- not you, Jo, but the rest of us. This is how we choose to remember epic historical events. And this is how we hope that people will remember us in these awe-inspiring sort of big, bold ways. In fact, think about this, when we get to encapsulate who we are in a single image, which is really what Jesus is doing here for us, what do we do? Well, those are our social media profiles. So we choose our most attractive photo with the blemishes edited out and the perfect lighting and all that. A long list of our greatest and most impressive accomplishments, pictures from all of the most fun and exciting moments of our lives. This is how we ask people to remember us. And yet, Communion is how Jesus asked us to remember him. Simple, humble elements depicting the most shameful, humiliating moment of his life displaying himself at his most vulnerable, completely contrary to the way we would have done it. 

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Jo Vitale [00:11:37] And it's so wild to me because it's not like Jesus didn't have other options to pick from, right? If you're his PR manager, there's so much you could pull from there. You might be like, hey, what about when you walked on water or what about when you multiplied those loaves and fish and fed all those thousands of people? How about the resurrection? What about just a big empty tomb? What if we just wore a circle around our necks rather than a cross? There are so many images of power, of death over life, of victory that he could have leaned into. 

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Vince Vitale [00:12:05] Absolutely. The humility of choosing this way of depicting his life is really significant. It's right at the center of who Jesus is and the impact that he had on the world as well. Because I've just been reading about this recently; you might want to take a check out John Dickon's book on this called Humilitas. But in short in, broad brushstrokes, in the West humility was not a virtue until Jesus walked the earth. I think this is so cool. The Greek word, topenos, and then the Latin translation, humilitas, these are almost universally used as negative predicates. They were negative words before Jesus walked the earth. And then all of a sudden, you've got it used about 34 times in the New Testament, always positively. Why? Because Jesus came teaching, those who exalt themselves will be humbled. And only those who humble themselves will be exalted. He completely turned the whole understanding of humility on its head. 

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[00:13:05] He actually turned it from a vice to a virtue. And now, all over the place, I see secular leadership coaches saying humility is hands down the number one quality of good leadership. And when they say that, they have no idea that they're actually giving a massive endorsement to Jesus Christ who literally made it a virtue. And now you see all these studies saying that humility is one of the strongest indicators of employee satisfaction and improved performance. and even studies that say that humble or modest leaders stay in power longer. I really smiled at that one because that is precisely why Jesus will reign forever. So even if we can appreciate the humility of Holy Communion We still need to ask what's going on here? Of all the things Jesus could have chosen, why the idea specifically of eating flesh and blood? 

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Jo Vitale [00:13:53] Yeah, and obviously there's a lot to be said here. But as a basic start, eating, just using an image of food, it makes sense because eating is what we all need to do to live. Physically, we're not getting through life without eating and drinking. But spiritually also eating has particular significance throughout the Old Testament, all the way up to Jesus. Actually, it starts at the very beginning in Genesis chapter three we have this symbol of eating. The first time that people eat of something that they weren't supposed to eat of, and it flips the whole world upside down. Adam and Eve, when they eat from the tree in the garden, it's the one time where they eat something that God has told them not to eat. And there's this irony here because they already have everything they need in Him, but they believe this lie that there's something outside of Him that they need to be sustained, to be nourished, to be satisfied, they take of the tree. And when they start eating from it, the irony is that's when suddenly hunger comes in and they find themselves unsatisfied. They find that they have these longings that can't be fulfilled. And it's this kind of downhill spiral from there as we've lost the wanting that filled us up. 

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[00:15:01] And I find it really interesting because that need to consume, this constant need to fill this hunger that comes ever from that moment that can never be satisfied. And it even translates not just into the things that we eat, but actually the way that we treat people as well. It's really interesting to me in Genesis chapter six, when we read about the sons of God who see the daughters of man-- obviously, we won't get into it, but interesting conversations about exactly who they were. But they see the daughter of man and the exact parallel phrases used as to when Eve sees the fruit, that they see that it's good to their eyes and so they take it. It's these three verbs in Hebrew that just parallel Genesis three and in Genesis six. The idea being that just as Eve saw that the fruit was good and she took it. So now then these men are seeing that women look good to their eyes and so they take them. So I think the language is very intentional there because it's basically showing how what begins as this desire just to consume physical food, just to physically fill ourselves up, it changes. So that even the way sin changes our view is that then we actually start to see people as things to be consumed. And so we build this whole pattern of life where we're constantly trying to fill ourselves up and we're filling ourselves up, not just with physical things, but actually by using other people, by consuming them, devouring them. In a way, we become the cannibals in that sense. 

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[00:16:20] Like we're constantly eating each other in our need to get our head, in our seeking of power, in our desire to satisfy something in us. We actually just wind up destroying ourselves and other people in the process. I remember a few years ago, Vince and I heard this song on the radio and the lyrics just really hit us as we were driving along. It's by Florence and the Machines. The song's called Hungered. Just the opening words were, "When I was 17, I started to starve myself. I thought that love was a kind of emptiness. At least I understood then the hunger I felt and I didn't have to call it loneliness. We all have a hunger." And we just heard those words and we thought, well, that's so speaks to our spiritual reality; that ever since we turned our backs on God, we have been hungry and we can't be satisfied. And so then this theme runs all the way through the Old Testament until we get to this conflict in John 6, where this crowd who eventually walk away from Jesus, the reason they were coming to him in the first place is because he's just done this huge miracle where he's fed them all by multiplying the loaves and the fish. And so now they're chasing him down because they want to make him king, the text tells us. They want to crown him king. But it's based off of the miracle he's just done. Basically, they're thinking, hey, if this guy's our king, he'll feed us forever. He'll provide for us forever; we'll never go hungry again. 

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Vince Vitale [00:17:37] Seconds for everyone. 

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Jo Vitale [00:17:37] Right, exactly. I'm just here for the food. But it's all about this physical satisfaction. But what's interesting to me is that in the process, they're also trying to consume Jesus. They're trying to use Him for their own ends, for their goals, but they don't want Him to be the kind of king who actually dictates to them life on His terms. They want Him to be the kind of king that they get to say what to do and He will just satisfy the needs that they've identified that they need fulfilling and no more, thank you very much. I think that's why Jesus comes in here so strongly and he's saying, no, I could give you more food today, I could keep feeding you, but so what? You'll still be hungry tomorrow. If you actually want your needs met, this isn't the way to do it. And actually the only thing in the whole world that is ever going to satisfy you and leave you not hungering after things and destroying one another in your quest to get filled up is if you eat my flesh and drink my blood. That's the only way to have life. 

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Vince Vitale [00:18:35] Yeah, that's right. And so Jesus he is still recognizing there's a remnant of good in our desires, even when they're distorted. Makes me think of that wonderful C.S. Lewis quote, "If I find in myself desires which nothing in this world can satisfy, the only logical explanation is that I was made for another world." So that deep desire of that for hunger, that desire is pointing towards something and Jesus saying, but we don't go far enough. We need stronger desires, not weaker desires that we find its ultimate fulfillment in me. And it's so interesting even this idea of eating a person, that sounds really, really weird. And yet there are instances where a newborn baby, if you've ever watched someone with a newborn baby and they're just talking to the newborn baby holding a newborn and they are just like, oh they're so cute." [Inaudible].

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Jo Vitale [00:19:30] At which point I'm like, I'm going to take my child back. 

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Vince Vitale [00:19:32] Yes, okay. It's a little bit weird. But it's also weird how often that phrase comes out of people's mouth, right? They're like holding this adorable baby, and it's kind of like they're squeezing the baby, it's a desire to be closer to another person than you actually physically can be on this earth. It's like you're squeezing that baby as tight as you can. You're face to face, it still not enough. That's still not going to fully fulfill the hunger that you have inside. And it's just so interesting that even the phrases sometimes come out of people's mouth is, "I could just eat you up." There's just this desire to like give kisses and almost like nibbles. And it's so interesting that Jesus invites us into this intimacy of yes, with me you can be even closer than is physically possible with anyone else. I'm going to abide in you and you're going to abide in me. I am going to be your abode. You're going to make your home in me and I'm going to make my home in you. It's just such utter closeness. And I think the physicality of the expression is also important. I probably said this before, but for me growing up in quite a physical Italian-American home, when I then came to Christ and started to worship in churches of certain traditions, I found it really difficult because for me relationship and relating to people always meant a big hug, a slap on the back. 

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[00:21:00] My brother and I greet each other by kissing each other on the cheek. And then all of a sudden I'm supposed to be with the person that I was supposed to be in deepest, closest relationship with, God himself, and like all the physicality was just stripped out of the relationship. And I think I found that quite difficult. And then as I've matured in my faith, I realized, no, this is important. God made me a physical being and he said he wants to relate to all of me. So I need to figure out how I can even have physical interaction with him in a sense. And then you go to the scriptures and you realize there's just all these details in scripture, which are beautifully physical. Back in the garden, when Adam and Eve fell, it says that God clothed them. Which is a very physical expression. Not just he gave them clothes, but he clothed them. At the end, we know when Jesus comes back, it says he's going to wipe every tear from our eyes. Again, not just there will be no tears, but that he has a body. Jesus is physical, and he's going to wipe every tear from her eyes. It says we're going to sit on the throne with Jesus. Like a single chair, two people. Again, a very physical image. Or even I think about the invitation for Thomas to reach out and touch Jesus's scars. So the physicality of the way Jesus asked us to remember him I think is really significant. And if you worship God but in a sense the physicality is completely stripped out of it, think about that. Think about how can I invite Jesus into more of my physical expression of who I am? 

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Jo Vitale [00:22:28] Yeah, that's so good. The other thing striking me as you're saying that is what we're celebrating at the heart of communion is also a very physical death as well. Jesus comes in in His physicality and actually dies a human death upon a cross. We talk about every time you do these things, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes. We're also talking about a physical death, aren't we? It's interesting to me because as human beings, we don't like to think about death, not anybody else's, certainly not our own. And so this symbol of communion, it can strike us as really grim, right? This idea of proclaiming the Lord's physical death until he comes. But I think that is the point. It is supposed to be shocking and jarring because we're supposed to face in communion, in the taking of communion, the reality that actually a physical death is what we owed. And I think we get uncomfortable at the idea of it, but actually there's no way around the fact that at the heart of the Christian faith, for us to live, actually required the death of somebody else. Because that was a death that we owed to God. 

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[00:23:39] When you think about the lives that we've lived, we have that phrase, don't we? You are what you eat. And that's true, right? You consistently fill yourself up on junk food, you'll eventually die of heart failure. If you keep feeding yourself spiritually on everything outside of God, eventually that will destroy you, too. And that's heart failure of a more serious kind. And it won't just destroy you, but the way we consume other people, we're destroying them as well. And yeah, so it leads to death. The Bible speaks of it in these terms. We were dead in our sins and so we needed somebody to actually come and take our place and die the death we deserved in order for us to have life. And I think we get uncomfortable with that, but that is at the heart of communion when Jesus says, "This is my body broken for you. This is my blood shed for you." I find this an incredible thought that Jesus here he's drawing on so much history and meaning in terms of what it means for blood to be poured out in particular. Because in Hebrew understanding in Leviticus 17 verse 11, we have this verse that says the life is in the blood. And basically this idea that whenever you eat an animal or sacrifice an animal, before you do that, you have to pour out the blood. You can't eat the body of an animal that still has blood in it. If you find an animal where that hasn't been the case, you can't it. 

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[00:24:55] And the reason for that is there's this understanding in Hebrew thought that actually the blood is what symbolizes life and that belongs only to God. And so you have poured out of the blood first as an offering to God as a way of saying, hey, this is yours. Everything in the world is yours and I recognize in this act of eating that I'm in your world and I'm receiving something from you, but the blood belongs to you because life belongs to You. And so, yeah, no one can digest blood. But then we have blood as this big symbol throughout the Old Testament. We have the blood of the lamb at Passover that's put over the door as a sign of saying these people will be passed over from judgment because of this animal that is sacrificed in their place. And then we have the blood that is sprinkled at Sinai when the first covenant that Moses institutes comes about. And the sprinkling of the blood is a sign over the people that actually their lives are bound to God through this covenant and it's a sign of new life in Him. And so then here we have Jesus at a passover supper with all of that imagery behind Him, saying, "This is my blood of the new covenant." I'm establishing a new covenant through blood. But this time what he's saying is that this life that contains the blood, the blood that always belongs to God and God alone is now being given. Like we're literally being asked to drink it. 

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[00:26:11] For the first time ever that the life that belongs to God is being given to his people. And Jesus, when he gives them the cup, he's handing it to them. He basically says, "Here is my blood." He's shed for you. He hasn't even done it yet, but he knows what he's about to do. It tells you something about his mindset of how committed he was to giving his life for his people that he's actually able to stand there and say that. It's not being forced out of him. It's not been taken from him. This is his voluntary sacrifice where he's handing them. But just imagine the weight of that moment. They don't understand yet even what it means and what they're receiving at that table. But he does. He knows exactly what it's going to cost him and what it means that the life and the blood of God himself is actually about to be poured out for the world. 

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Vince Vitale [00:26:55] Yeah, well, we can just so easily just get in this ritual of once a week or once a month participating in the Lord's table and not realizing there are just these otherworldly, majestic, just beautiful things that are taking place and that are being expressed. And even this idea that Jesus took on our flesh and now we take in His flesh as this source of life, it's just so beautiful and fitting. And it also connects-- you'll have to correct me here, Jo, where I get this wrong. But I think it's significant even when we bring forth life as a human species, we bring forth life and it always relies on the sacrifice of another and through a bloody process and even through carrying another person's body within us. I'm thinking here of when a woman becomes pregnant. So jump in here, Jo, as soon as I put my foot in my mouth. But when a woman takes another life and another body into her own, as a baby's body is growing within her, that's a profound decision. 

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[00:28:09] It's a profoundly responsibility. It comes with a profound cost. And then from that moment forward, a woman lives differently. Like in the context of pregnancy, you eat differently. You care for your body differently. Every decision you make, you're thinking, this doesn't just impact me, it impacts the one living inside of me. So now I live for the one and living inside of me and this is in some sense true when we make the decision for Jesus's body to come and live within our body. This is not just a nice ritual that reminds us of what we believe. It also is this commitment to live differently. To live differently in light of the fact that I'm now carrying within myself Jesus who has come to abide in me. I'm carrying within myself this person who is alive and the person for whom I live. 

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Jo Vitale [00:29:00] Yeah, and I love the double imagery that we have new life within us, but we also live in a new home as well. And I just love that I'm taking a step back when you look at Jesus presiding at this table and the image of the table, that is such a symbol of invitation into the house of God. And I think we can lose sight of how profound an image that would have been at the time because we live such individualistic lives today. Actually, they say it's one of the ways culture is changing. Is that dinner parties used to be more of a thing. People used to invite people over to their homes more, but more often than not, if you're going to meet friends now, people tend to go out for dinner. They'll meet them at a restaurant and we don't have people as much in our homes. At least we don't in our culture over here in the States. But it's interesting because even if you think about different cultures around the world and you think about ancient culture, hospitality is often a much bigger thing. Particularly in Jesus' day, when we think about the culture that He was living within. Like, travelers, for example, if you're journeying to a different town, there aren't hotels for you to stay in. 

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[00:30:04] So when you show up in another town, you actually need someone to open their home to you or at least let you stay in their stables. Probably where Mary and Joseph slept when they had Jesus in a stable attached to somebody's house. And so, you actually someone to a home, and that's a big deal because someone's inviting you in. And when they do that, there's a decision involved, a vulnerability involved, because they're trusting you that you're not going to be an enemy, that you are not going to bring harm to their home. But also in that sign of friendship, when you bring somebody into your home, it's actually a statement of guesting rights and rituals where they actually come under the protection of your household. So if you were to be attacked from anybody else, you now have a responsibility to protect the guests in your home. So as all of this imagery floating around the background, we think about this invitation to the table. When you think about Psalm 23, for example, when it talks about God who prepares a table for me in the presence of my enemies, it's almost that image of having a meal prepared for you, receiving hospitality under the protection of somebody. And there's so much of that in the background, again, of this image of communion. That once we were enemies of God, but then while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 

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[00:31:14] And so now, because of this act of Him giving us His body and His blood, we're no longer enemies anymore who can't come in. But now we're people who are welcome into the home. We have been invited to the table. More than that, we're now under His protection from everybody else. And then where do we come into in the home? We've been bought at a price, we've been redeemed, but we're not brought into the household as slaves or servants. We're brought as guests at the dinner table. We're being hosted by God Himself at His own table. And just think about it, that the meal where Jesus first instituted this spiritual practice of communion and told people to go on doing this, was the same meal where he first got down and washed everybody's feet. That's the kind of host he is. That's an invitation to dining that we are invited to. So everything about this image of communion, it's not just about, hey, I died for you, do this in remembrance of me and feel guilty and bad every time for what you put me through. That is not the image of remembrance. It's not remember and feel bad; It's remember how much I love you. This is what you are worth to me. This is the cost. I was willing to pay for you because I wanted to invite you in, into my home, into my family to receive this invitation. And ultimately, of course, it's an image that runs forward all the way to the end of the Bible where we know that heaven is described as this wedding supper of the lamb, where we'll all finally sit down at that banqueting table with Jesus as the most honored guest of all, because we're there as the bride sitting down with our groom. 

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Vince Vitale [00:32:44] And the most encouraging phrase in the liturgy in 1st Corinthians it says, "The Lord Jesus on the night he was betrayed." And so he's there at the table and he knows tonight he's going to be betrayed and yet he institutes this practice saying, I'm going to your protector. I'm going to be the one that forgives you. I'm going to be the one who gives my life for you. Even imagine yourself like when you know you're being betrayed or when you've just been betrayed, what are the emotions that are that are just swirling around in your head and in your heart. And to think it's on that night itself that Jesus instituted this sacrament Confirming that he was going to move forward and give his life for us. That's just so encouraging to me, to just be utterly confident that Jesus's sacrifice can deal with my sin. 

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[00:33:36] And I like that you use the word invitation because communion is such a blessing and a gift. It's such a hopeful gift. We're being invited into something good and life-giving. But sometimes we can have this attitude of more of a somberness and more just there's this warning to examine ourselves. And this is important. To examine ourselves and not to participate in an unworthy manner, specifically in the context of the fact that people were not being family and community to one another in the correct, loving ways. So we have to gather together as a community in a loving, worthy manner. It even says that some have gotten sick and died because that's not taking place. So this is really serious. But then on that side of things, we can sometimes approach communion as if it's like security check at the airport. 

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Jo Vitale [00:34:27] Right. 

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Vince Vitale [00:34:28] So there's a long line, and there's no upside. 

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Jo Vitale [00:34:33] There is no upside. 

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Vince Vitale [00:34:35] There is only a potential downside. It's this requirement. It's an act of obedience. You've got to do it. And if it goes well, there's not one waiting on the other side to congratulate you like congratulations you got through security. You get no gift on the others side. You just pick up your bags and carry on as you were. But you're worried that there could be a downside as you go through like I forgot that thing in my back pocket. And even when you've checked like six times, you still walk through feeling like it's going to go off. Feeling like something is going to grow wrong even when you know that logically nothing should. And this is not the approach that we want to have towards communion because it is this gift of love and it's a blessing and it is a gift. My friend Justin Wojak recently spoke about how Isaiah six actually has a Eucharistic connection to it. When Isaiah has this throne room vision right and when he's before the Lord at first it's, "Woe to me, I am ruined. I'm a man of unclean lips." And then one of the Seraphim fly over with a burning coal in his hand which he'd taken from the altar, (interesting) from the table, and then he touched Isaiah's mouth with it. And said, "Behold, this has touched your lips and your guilt is taken away and atonement is made for your sin." 

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[00:36:00] So at least this artistic connection with what takes place in communion, and then it says that Isaiah heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send and who will go for us?" And then he says, "Here am I; send me." So and even John says in the Gospel of John that Isaiah saw Jesus' glory. And so there's some sense in which Isaiah saw Jesus' Glory. He has this coal in the presence of this throne room vision touch his lips, and then there's this strengthening that comes from that when he goes from sort of, whoa, I am of unclean lips, to then his guilt being taken away, atonement being made for his sin. And now he says, okay, I'm strengthened. Here am I. Send me. And one other Eucharistic image that I think of often as I'm approaching to take the bread and the cup is the sinful woman in Luke seven. Just this most beautiful image in scripture when she walks in uninvited to a dinner party at Simon the Pharisee's house because she's just concerned about absolutely nothing other than worshiping Jesus for who he is. And she approaches this throne of Jesus and she's on her knees in reverence, but also with such affection because she knows this is a person of grace. And her tears fall on Jesus' feet and she pours perfume on them and she kisses them. She kisses his feet. 

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[00:37:24] She's wiping his feet with her hair, drying them. And then her lips actually touch the skin of Jesus. Again, this Eucharistic picture. And what does Jesus say? "Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has saved you. Go in peace." So that's what we want to receive and what we want to hear from the Lord as we go and we take of his body and his blood. Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has saved you. Go in peace. And every time I read that passage, I just feel such conviction to ask myself have I ever in my life really approached Jesus with that posture of affection and just utter intimacy? Even the word communion, I looked up the definition and one of the first ones that up was the exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings. How beautiful that would be if we approach the table with that definition in mind and living that out. How are you intimate with God? Remember, you are his bride and marriage gets in trouble if there's no intimacy. There have to be ways that we are intimate with the God that we say we love and who loves us so much. Jo, any final thoughts? 

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Jo Vitale [00:38:32] Yeah, I think just an encouragement to embrace the weirdness of communion. I think in light of all this, the temptation could be to say, well, this is hard to explain to people, so let's downplay it. Let's make it seem less weird, more palatable. But let's not do that. Let's not do what Jesus absolutely refused to do. Let's not go out of our way to try and make Him the King that everybody's looking for who can just feed you and you can just go on your way. Let's not make it more palatable when actually this is the message of the gospel and this is the most beautiful hope in the world. That symbol of God who isn't trying to sell you anything, who's not making a power play, but coming to us in this vulnerability because He knew that's exactly what it would take to save our lives and He was willing to do that for us. That is the most beautiful news in the whole world. Even if it's the most counter-cultural thing people have ever heard, it's actually what they need. And so let's not shy away from that when it comes to talking about things that people don't understand like communion because there is so much beauty in this act. And actually, a couple of years ago, we were visiting a church service as a family when during communion, our son, JJ, who was one year old at the time, he took somebody's bread and wine in that little container it sometimes comes in in churches. And he suddenly started slobbering all over it. He was chewing on it, teething. It was just so grim, wasn't it? He just destroyed the thing. 

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Vince Vitale [00:39:57] He's very cute though.

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Jo Vitale [00:39:57] Yeah, he was adorable, but it was a disaster. And Vince and I were absolutely mortified and we just started profusely apologizing to this woman. But her immediate response was this, she said, "Oh, don't worry. It's not like it's some family heirloom or anything. You can just throw it out." It was just one of those moments that absolutely just pierced Vince and I to the heart because that's exactly what it is, right? This is our family heirloom. It is a sacred possession, a sacrament of our church family that's been passed down from generation to generation to generation, to us. And oftentimes at great cost early Christians would gather in hidden catacombs and crypts underground at risk of death just so they could do what we were about to do. And that's still true of the persecuted church today. And that woman was right that when something is a family heirloom, you don't just throw it out; you treat it differently, you carry it differently, you talk about it differently. And when you have a family heirloom, you approach it with both reverence and joy. It's not an either or. 

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[00:41:04] And I think sometimes Those can be like our two different modes for worship. Either we come in reverence, but then we think of it as kind of somber and heavy and boring, but at least we're being obedient. Or we're in kind of joy mode, where it's like, yay, fun, energized, but more superficial. But that's just not a dichotomy God asks of us. But just to think about what this means as a family heirloom, we're careful, we place great value on it, we want to be reverent because we're proclaiming the Lord's death until he comes. And the seriousness of that and the cost of that. But then at the same time, we can still smile. We can still experience joy. We can steal delight in sharing it with other people because this is where our life begins. And this is the invitation that we all have to come to the table of the Lord and meet him there and be reminded of what he did to give us life. This thing he's already done for us, but also we can be renewed and restored and receive life to sustain us again in the days ahead. 

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Vince Vitale [00:42:04] Yeah, that's right. I like how you said to embrace the weirdness. After 15 years of being married to me that has helped you with that. 

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Jo Vitale [00:42:09] I'm used to your phrase in weirdness. 

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Vince Vitale [00:42:12] So, Lord, we thank you. We thank you Jesus that on the same night that you were betrayed at supper with your friends, you took bread and you gave thanks and you broke it and you gave it to them saying, "Take, eat, this is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And then at the end of supper, you took the cup of wine, as you looked into it, you knew that very soon it would be your blood that would be poured out. And yet again, you gave thanks and you said, "Drink this, all of you. This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for you for the forgiveness of sins. Do this in remembrance of Me." And so, Father, as we joyfully proclaim Jesus' death. And celebrate his rising in glory, send your Holy Spirit that this bread and this wine may be to us the body and blood of your beloved Son. And as we eat and drink these holy gifts, unite us as your church, we pray, make us one in Christ, our risen Lord, amen.

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